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Arguing With Idiots X: Idiocy Has Taken Over

Welcome to the return of Arguing With Idiots.  For past editions, click here.

I have heard nothing but verbal diarrhea over the last few days.  The Knicks and Nets each land one of the biggest names in the league, yet no one seems to be happy.  Instead of being happy about landing Carmelo, Knick fans have been irritated at losing players such as Timofey Mozgov.  Instead of being thrilled about landing Deron Williams, I have yet to hear one Net fan say anything positive about the trade.  Well, I haven’t talked to many Net fans since they barely exist, but that’s beyond the point.

Let’s start with Melo.

The Knicks easily could have gotten Melo in the offseason.  WHY GIVE UP YOUR WHOLE TEAM FOR AN EXTRA TWO MONTHS OF MELO!!!!!!!!!111

Calm down, no need to yell.  Melo would have likely went to the Nets if he didn’t get traded to the Knicks. He would have risked losing a lot of money by not signing an extension before the new CBA.  Also, there is no guarantee the Knicks would have been able to sign him in July.  A franchise tag in the new CBA could have stopped it.  Even if the Knicks would have signed him in the offseason, Melo would have likely demanded a sign-and-trade, making the Knicks give up a draft pick or two anyway.

BUT THEY LOST MOZGOV!!!

You wouldn’t have known who Mozgov was if D’Antoni didn’t put him in the rotation in the last few weeks.  The Knicks have actually played better without him.  There won’t be a problem replacing his 4 PPG and 2 RPG.

Gallo and Chandler are huge losses.

That they are.  But sometimes you have to give something up to get something.  In this case, the reward was too big to turn down.

Gallinari plays the same position as Melo, so he would have just been a 6th man.  Chandler was a valuable piece, but he was an RFA at the end of the season.  Holding on to him could have complicated the Knicks’ cap situation in the upcoming years.

Billups is a downgrade from Raymond Felton.

Maybe, but Felton was never the long-term plan at the point.  Billups is a a solid veteran who can shoot the ball and mentor other players.  He may be able to turn Toney Douglas into a great point guard.  I still think Chauncey is the best player in the trade behind Carmelo.

Onto Deron.

Deron Williams isn’t as good as Chris Paul.

Arguable, but who cares?  Deron is still an elite point guard who is definitely top-five in the league.  Williams, being a superstar, can also attract big names like Dwight Howard to New Jersey/Brooklyn in future seasons.

Why would you give up Favors?

Favors could have taken years to figure out.  Developing him into the next star PF would have taken a lot of time with no guarentee for success.  The Nets can find a franchise power forward soon, I am confident of it.

Two first rounders is too much.

It could be, but would either of those picks turn out to be as good as Deron?  The Nets clearly got the best player in this deal.  This is a superstar’s league.  If you don’t have at least one, you aren’t going anywhere.  The Nets needed one, and they got one.

There’s no guarantee he will re-sign in 2012 when his deal is up.

He is eligible to re-sign in July of this year, and I think he will.  It would be smart of him to get a contract extension before the new CBA.  What other places will have the cap flexibility and marketing opportunities that the Brooklyn Nets will have in 2012?  He could go to the Knicks, but I think they will set their sights on CP3.

In the end, both the Melo and Williams deals were great for the Knicks and Nets.  The Melo deal finally brought true Knicks basketball back to New York City.  The Deron deal helped the Nets acquire the star they’ve been longing for since their glory days.

Nets Nearing Deal for Felton and Mozgov

Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo Sports is reporting that the Nets, Mavericks, and Nuggets are discussing a potential trade. The Nets would send Devin Harris to Dallas. Harris played for Dallas from 2004 to 2008.  Raymond Felton and Timofey Mozgov, who both were traded to the Nuggets from the Knicks earlier tonight, would land in New Jersey.

Update 7:09AM:

ESPN’s Chris Broussard tweets that the Nets are unlikely to acquire any former Knicks players in a trade with Denver.

Stay tuned to New York Sports Today as more details emerge!

Quick Hits: 2/17/11

All articles from Real GM:

The Nuggets have asked for all of the Knicks’ best young prospects in a deal for Carmelo Anthony.

Denver is demanding Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Landry Fields, Raymond Felton, Timofey Mozgov and a first-round pick (obtained by trading Anthony Randolph) in exchange for Anthony and Chauncey Billups.

“They want everything,” a league source said. “The Knicks didn’t even have to sit down and talk about that offer. It’s not even logistically possible. They’d have two miserable stars with nothing around them.”

“Maybe they [the Nuggets] just don’t want to do it,” the source said. “Didn’t they do that with the Nets? When you keep asking for more until you say no, maybe you don’t want to do it. Maybe they want to go to the playoffs with Anthony and call [Anthony’s] bluff on June 30th.”

The Nuggets aren’t getting this, so they can just lose Melo for nothing if they wish to at the end of the season.

The Blazers and Nets are in discussions about an exchanged centered around Andre Miller for Devin Harris.

Travis Outlaw and Anthony Morrow have been discussed as possible players going to Portland, while Rudy Fernandez and Joel Przybilla could be moved to New Jersey.

Portland’s interest in Harris dates back to when he played for Dallas.

I think this would be a good trade for the Nets.  Harris isn’t the PG of the future, and getting rid of Outlaw would be huge.

Reports have surfaced that the Nuggets and Nets are talking again about a trade to send Carmelo Anthony to New Jersey.

But a source with knowledge of the situation tells Alan Hahn of Newsday that the Nets reemergence is not genuine.

“The Nets are out,” the source said.

Hahn writes that the Knicks are not confident that Denver actually knows what it wants from a deal for Anthony and offers his opinion that it is “amateur hour” in the Nuggets’ front office.

They’re done, we’ve known this for weeks.  The Nets won’t be getting Melo.  If they were going to get a deal done, it would have been done months ago.

Breaking News: Nets Re-Enter Melo Talks

Ready for a twist?  The Nets are back in the Carmelo Anthony trade discussions according to Adrian Wojnarowski and Al Iannazzone.  As more details break, we’ll get them to you as fast as we can.  Here is Woj’s latest article on the situation.  Remember to follow us on Twitter for all the latest updates.

UPDATE: Al Iannazzone was just on the YES Network.  He said he wouldn’t be surprised if both parties sat down over the weekend if things get close.  He also believes, to no one’s surprise, that Troy Murphy will be moved.  He expects the Nets to be very active at the deadline, possibly moving some of their draft picks.

I Was Wrong About the Nets

Original article

Back in August, I foolishly predicted the Nets would make the playoffs.  I honestly thought they’d be a very good team that could compete for a lower seed in the playoffs.  I figured adding Avery Johnson was about a five win bonus, a healthy Harris would light the league up, and Derrick Favors was the next superstar.  I was completely wrong, as even Brook Lopez has struggled this season.  Here’s what I had to say:

The Nets are my pick to play the role of the dark horse for this year’s NBA seasons. Many people say the Nets did not improve in the offseason, but that is a complete fallacy. The bottom line is that the Nets didn’t have to acquire a max free agent to get better. Their youth and potential already makes them a better team. Under a new head coach in Avery Johnson, this team could grow into a playoff contender. Acquiring role players such as Travis Outlaw, Troy Murphy, Johan Petro, Anthony Morrow, and Quinton Ross can’t hurt either. Combine that with a great draft, and you have a real solid offseason.

While the team did get better, they completely struck out in free agency.  The only real good player out of the five I mentioned above is Anthony Morrow.  I also wouldn’t call their draft great, it was average at best.  Favors still has the potential to be a star, but Damion James has yet to contribute because of injuries.

PG: Devin Harris/Jordan Farmar/Ben Uzoh

I got this right, but it was obvious at the time.

SG: Terrence Williams/Anthony Morrow/Quinton Ross

Terrence Williams was traded in an extremely lopsided trade in the Nets’ favor.  Somehow Stephen Graham has been starting, but who the hell knows what is going through Avery Johnson’s mind.

SF: Travis Outlaw/Damion James/Quinton Ross

Would be about right if Damion James was healthy, but Outlaw could move back to the bench sooner than later.

PF: Troy Murphy/Derrick Favors/Kris Humphries/Sean May

May didn’t make the team and Murphy hasn’t played in a long time.  Humphries is now the starter and Favors gets backup minutes.

C: Brook Lopez/Johan Petro/Brian Zoubek

Correct, but Zoubek didn’t make the team.

That certainly is not a bad squad. Make no mistake about it, Devin Harris and Brook Lopez are young stars. Lopez may be the most coveted young center in the league. If Derrick Favors can develop into the next Chris Bosh, the Nets will have a tantalizing front court duo. For now, Troy Murphy will do.

The squad is pretty bad and Troy Murphy has been a disaster.

But what about the corner positions? I truly believe Terrence Williams is ready to start opening night and contribute. Williams has the potential to be a really special player in the NBA. If he can build on his second half from last season, he should be exciting to watch. And to back him up, Anthony Morrow may be the NBA’s greatest three-point shooter of all-time. Yes, you heard me right. After nine more attempts, Morrow will qualify to lead the league in all-time three-point percentage.

Terrence Williams found himself in the D-League at one point.  Morrow is turning out to be a solid player,  however.

Small forward is a bit of concern, but Travis Outlaw is still a solid player. I was a huge critic of the deal he received, but there is no doubt that this kid can ball. He takes too many stupid three-pointers, but hopefully he becomes a smarter player under Avery Johnson. Talking to a few Clippers fans, I have heard that Outlaw takes ridiculous fadeaway three-pointers that will make you shut off the game. Hopefully they are just over exaggerating.

Outlaw is anything but solid, the Clipper fans were dead on.

What will be the biggest difference between the 2009-2010 and the 2010-2011 Nets? Leadership. Avery Johnson is a real head coach. He will give the Nets something to fight for every night. I truly can see Brook Lopez and Devin Harris stepping up as locker room leaders as well. For a young team, leadership and chemistry are important issues. I believe this team will have both.

Pretty much every Net fan hates Johnson right now.  That could change if the team gets better, but who knows when that will be.

Nets Making a New Deal?

With last week’s four-team trade for Carmelo Anthony off, the Nets are now scrambling to put together a new deal for the star forward.  According to Yahoo Sports, the Nets are trying to work out a deal to make Carmelo a Net and Derrick Favors a Nugget.  This news comes after rumors circulating today that Devin Harris is unhappy with Avery Johnson and the Nets.  It is unknown if Harris will be part of the new deal.

For more on this, feel free to visit our archives of Carmelo articles and rumors.