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Arguing With Idiots X: Idiocy Has Taken Over

Welcome to the return of Arguing With Idiots.  For past editions, click here.

I have heard nothing but verbal diarrhea over the last few days.  The Knicks and Nets each land one of the biggest names in the league, yet no one seems to be happy.  Instead of being happy about landing Carmelo, Knick fans have been irritated at losing players such as Timofey Mozgov.  Instead of being thrilled about landing Deron Williams, I have yet to hear one Net fan say anything positive about the trade.  Well, I haven’t talked to many Net fans since they barely exist, but that’s beyond the point.

Let’s start with Melo.

The Knicks easily could have gotten Melo in the offseason.  WHY GIVE UP YOUR WHOLE TEAM FOR AN EXTRA TWO MONTHS OF MELO!!!!!!!!!111

Calm down, no need to yell.  Melo would have likely went to the Nets if he didn’t get traded to the Knicks. He would have risked losing a lot of money by not signing an extension before the new CBA.  Also, there is no guarantee the Knicks would have been able to sign him in July.  A franchise tag in the new CBA could have stopped it.  Even if the Knicks would have signed him in the offseason, Melo would have likely demanded a sign-and-trade, making the Knicks give up a draft pick or two anyway.

BUT THEY LOST MOZGOV!!!

You wouldn’t have known who Mozgov was if D’Antoni didn’t put him in the rotation in the last few weeks.  The Knicks have actually played better without him.  There won’t be a problem replacing his 4 PPG and 2 RPG.

Gallo and Chandler are huge losses.

That they are.  But sometimes you have to give something up to get something.  In this case, the reward was too big to turn down.

Gallinari plays the same position as Melo, so he would have just been a 6th man.  Chandler was a valuable piece, but he was an RFA at the end of the season.  Holding on to him could have complicated the Knicks’ cap situation in the upcoming years.

Billups is a downgrade from Raymond Felton.

Maybe, but Felton was never the long-term plan at the point.  Billups is a a solid veteran who can shoot the ball and mentor other players.  He may be able to turn Toney Douglas into a great point guard.  I still think Chauncey is the best player in the trade behind Carmelo.

Onto Deron.

Deron Williams isn’t as good as Chris Paul.

Arguable, but who cares?  Deron is still an elite point guard who is definitely top-five in the league.  Williams, being a superstar, can also attract big names like Dwight Howard to New Jersey/Brooklyn in future seasons.

Why would you give up Favors?

Favors could have taken years to figure out.  Developing him into the next star PF would have taken a lot of time with no guarentee for success.  The Nets can find a franchise power forward soon, I am confident of it.

Two first rounders is too much.

It could be, but would either of those picks turn out to be as good as Deron?  The Nets clearly got the best player in this deal.  This is a superstar’s league.  If you don’t have at least one, you aren’t going anywhere.  The Nets needed one, and they got one.

There’s no guarantee he will re-sign in 2012 when his deal is up.

He is eligible to re-sign in July of this year, and I think he will.  It would be smart of him to get a contract extension before the new CBA.  What other places will have the cap flexibility and marketing opportunities that the Brooklyn Nets will have in 2012?  He could go to the Knicks, but I think they will set their sights on CP3.

In the end, both the Melo and Williams deals were great for the Knicks and Nets.  The Melo deal finally brought true Knicks basketball back to New York City.  The Deron deal helped the Nets acquire the star they’ve been longing for since their glory days.

Nets Nearing Deal for Felton and Mozgov

Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo Sports is reporting that the Nets, Mavericks, and Nuggets are discussing a potential trade. The Nets would send Devin Harris to Dallas. Harris played for Dallas from 2004 to 2008.  Raymond Felton and Timofey Mozgov, who both were traded to the Nuggets from the Knicks earlier tonight, would land in New Jersey.

Update 7:09AM:

ESPN’s Chris Broussard tweets that the Nets are unlikely to acquire any former Knicks players in a trade with Denver.

Stay tuned to New York Sports Today as more details emerge!

Melo Wants Out?

From ESPN Insider

The Knicks may have turned down the Nuggets’ trade proposal. However, The Denver Post reports the two teams will continue the Carmelo Anthony discussions over All-Star weekend.

The Nuggets are considering keeping Anthony in hopes that he’ll sign the $65 million extension due the uncertainty of the next collective bargaining agreement. However, the locker room is not good right now, according to Yahoo! Sports, and a deal needs to be done by next Thursday.

“With the way he’s distanced himself from the team, the organization, they’re kidding themselves if they think he’s signing a new deal,” said one league official. “He hasn’t checked out on the season because he never checked in.”

Sources also tell the website that George Karl, who is negotiating a new contract, is tired of the “Melodrama” and is OK being the head coach of a team that is rebuilding.

— Nick Borges

I think a deal will get done by Monday.  It’s inevitable, Melo will be a Knick.  The only question is when the trade will get done and how much the Knicks will have to give up.

Knicks Turned Down Carmelo Deal Monday Night

From Real GM

Carmelo Anthony could have become a member of the Knicks on Monday night.

New York president Donnie Walsh turned down an offer from Denver that one team official classified as “steep.”

According to a team source, “there is a deal to be made” but the most recent machination wasn’t to Walsh’s liking.

The Nuggets offered Anthony and Chauncey Billups to the Knicks for Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Eddy Curry and at least one first-round pick.

Original article from the New York Daily News

Wow… let’s see how this plays out.  Good move by the Knicks not giving up Felton.

Nets Now Frontrunners for Carmelo

Once again, Real GM and ESPN are claiming they have sources that know all things involving Carmelo Anthony.  Late last night, ESPN reported that the Nuggets are listening to trade offers from multiple teams.  The favorites?  The Nets.  Who would have guessed?

I think it is safe to rule the Bulls out at this point.  The Nuggets won’t want to take on Luol Deng’s contract.  The Nets and Knicks are both very good possibilities, but I personally can’t see a deal getting done until February.  The Nuggets won’t lower their demands, and I don’t see them giving  in until the trade deadline. 

While Carmelo wouldn’t make the Knicks or Nets immediate contenders, he would be a real solid piece going forward.  Before either team pulls the trigger on a trade, they have to be confident that Melo will sign a long-term extension.  You can’t give up a whole lot for him and then see him leave next offseason. 

Let’s look at each team’s lineup with Carmelo added in.  Obviously, each team would have to give up pieces to trade for him.  Let’s say the Nets give up T-Will and Favors, while the Knicks give up Gallinari and Chandler.

Nets
Harris
Morrow
Anthony
Murphy
Lopez

Knicks
Felton
Azubuike
Anthony
Stoudemire
Turiaf

That’s certainly not a bad lineup for either team.

UPDATE: NBC Sports is now reporting that the Nets are in the drivers seat for Carmelo.

Will the Knicks and Nets be Offensive or Defensive Teams?

Offensive and defensive bias are keys to understanding basketball’s advanced statistics.  A player with a more positive bias has a better offensive game.  A player with a more negative bias has a better defensive game.  It’s a simple concept to see what type of player someone is.  For more on this topic, click here.

All stats are for the 2009-2010 season.

Knicks
Kelenna Azubuike: 2.3
Wilson Chandler: -0.2
Eddy Curry: -7.0
Toney Douglas: 3.1
Raymond Felton: 0.2
Danillo Gallinari: 3.2
Roger Mason: -1.7
Anthony Randolph: -1.7
Amar’e Stoudemire: 3.2
Ronny Turiaf: -2.9
Bill Walker: 1.6

Total Bias: 0.1

Now I know people expected a much higher bias for the Knicks towards offense, but look at the numbers closely.  If you take out Eddy Curry, the team bias is suddenly 7.1.  Since Curry isn’t really part of the team, it is very fair to say the Knicks are much more of an offensive team than defensive.

Nets
Jordan Farmar: -0.8
Devin Harris: 3.1
Kris Humphries: -2.6
Brook Lopez: 2.1
Sean May: -2.5
Anthony Morrow: 1.0
Troy Murphy: -0.5
Travis Outlaw: -2.2
Johan Petro: -1.9
Quinton Ross: -3.4
Terrence Williams: -2.1

Total Bias: -9.8

The Nets are clearly a defensive team, which is a good thing.  For a young team looking to put together wins, defense is a great tool to implement.  I’m looking forward to seeing if this team can click this season.